DFB.de: In your latest book “Make them Go”, you describe your concept as ‘transformational leadership’. What do you mean by that?
Hermann: The concept of transformational leadership goes back to J.M. Burns and is now almost 40-years-old. It has only in recent years had increased attention regarding practice in companies and organizations. Transformational leadership is about leading through targets because managers generate increased motivation among their employees through the mediation of significance, inspiration and appreciation.
DFB.de: Much has been written about the special atmosphere within the Germany team. How did you find Campo Bahia?
Hermann: Campo was perfect. It was, due to its investment and structure, exactly what the team needed as a safe haven and a place to prepare.
DFB.de: How do you find and form a team?
Hermann: Oh, there are many theoretical papers on this topic and I don’t want to bore you with them. In every case, it is a long process until you can find a stable team. Until then, there are difficulties and conflicts to overcome. In some teams you get the feeling that the process will never be completed because positions are not accepted and are repeatedly negotiated. It takes time and for everyone to accept the rules before necessary trust is created, that is trust in themselves and in the performance of the group. Sport psychological team building activities come in to it and they can accelerate the process and build team cohesion.
DFB.de: And how was that last summer?
Hermann: Regarding the team’s development?
Hans-Dieter Hermann has been looking after the Germany national team for more than a decade. When Philipp Lahm was presented with the World Cup in the Maracana on the 13th July 2014, it was also a special moment for the 54-year-old sports psychologist. That was his reward for his work, his consideration, his empathy and his coaching at the best football team in the world.
Together with Dr. Jan Meyer, who amongst other things counsels 1899 Hoffenheim, he wrote a book called “Make them go – Was wir vom Coaching für Spitzensportler lernen können" (“Make them go – what we can learn from coaching top athletes”). DFB.de’s editor Thomas Hackbarth asks what it is that we can learn, as well as with regards to amateur football.
DFB.de: Dr. Hermann, how often were you asked after Brazil what was psychologically decisive in the World Cup victory?
Dr. Hans-Dieter Hermann: It’s difficult to say a number but the question was constantly asked in the weeks after the World Cup.
DFB.de: And what was the deciding factor?
Hermann: There were lots of factors that contributed and they were all significant. However, what particularly appeared important to me was that every player in the World Cup squad, including every leader, was ready to put the team’s interests ahead of their own in the pursuit of success.
DFB.de: The coach who imposes his will on the team. The captain, and two or three other leaders, who captivate everyone by shouting their heads off. Those are the popular ideas. Is this style of leadership now passé because of the country’s fourth World Cup success in Brazil?
Hermann: It is not passé. Besides, this style can still be quite rewarding when it is used in the right situations. However, in order to be successful with a team in the long term, you need other management tools and practices. Joachim Löw got a lot of credit for making Germany successful by using primarily an inspiring and appreciative management style, a style which embodies Joachim Löw himself. That doesn’t only work in sport; it also works in management positions in commerce.
DFB.de: In your latest book “Make them Go”, you describe your concept as ‘transformational leadership’. What do you mean by that?
Hermann: The concept of transformational leadership goes back to J.M. Burns and is now almost 40-years-old. It has only in recent years had increased attention regarding practice in companies and organizations. Transformational leadership is about leading through targets because managers generate increased motivation among their employees through the mediation of significance, inspiration and appreciation.
DFB.de: Much has been written about the special atmosphere within the Germany team. How did you find Campo Bahia?
Hermann: Campo was perfect. It was, due to its investment and structure, exactly what the team needed as a safe haven and a place to prepare.
DFB.de: How do you find and form a team?
Hermann: Oh, there are many theoretical papers on this topic and I don’t want to bore you with them. In every case, it is a long process until you can find a stable team. Until then, there are difficulties and conflicts to overcome. In some teams you get the feeling that the process will never be completed because positions are not accepted and are repeatedly negotiated. It takes time and for everyone to accept the rules before necessary trust is created, that is trust in themselves and in the performance of the group. Sport psychological team building activities come in to it and they can accelerate the process and build team cohesion.
DFB.de: And how was that last summer?
Hermann: Regarding the team’s development?
DFB.de: Exactly.
Hermann: It was not a problem. The coaching staff has worked on forming the team for years and the roles within the team were widely accepted.
DFB.de: How important was Per Mertesacker’s infamous outburst to TV journalist after the Round of 16-match for strengthening team cohesion?
Hermann: The boys were already a real community with a clear aim by then. Per spoke everyone’s mind and caused a good laugh among his teammates later.
DFB.de: Was there a moment when you were thinking: „Yes, no one can stop us from winning the title anymore?”
Hermann: Although you can’t always be sure, I was convinced that this team would win the World Cup when we were in the dressing room after the quarter final against France. And my impression was that the majority of players believed the same thing by then.
DFB.de: You are writing about the effects of vicarious experience, about 'in sensu' practice. How much can a top athlete learn from looking at a screen?
Hermann: Vicarious experience, or in sensu, literally translating into 'in imagination', doesn’t necessarily have to imply the usage of a screen or other gadgets. It also works solely by using the power of our imagination. When learning something new, our brain doesn’t distinguish between real experiences and those experiences that only happen in our heads. For example, you’ll notice this, when you wake up during a nightmare and need a few moments to realise that your dream isn’t real. It is possible to use this effect to train real-life situations purely in your imagination. The advantage lies in the high number of possible repetitions and the independence from outer influences. The brain is experiencing movement without the body actually being active. Generally, it is possible to apply this concept to any movement in football. Obviously, this is only complimentary and no substitute for training on the pitch.
DFB.de: It is said that Eintracht Frankfurt’s Alex Meier goes back to watch every single shot at goal after a game. Is this useful?
Hermann: Yes, definitely! And not just for motivational reasons. As I just mentioned, if he uses his videos to recall his movements and study them in depth, this can be totally useful. Science can prove this. This can happen on a small scale as an imaginary training, but can also be used to find out which aspects have scope for improvement and what the according measures to be taken in training are. By the way, the time frame he is using is ideal as well. On the day after the match the emotions have cooled down but the memory is still fresh.
DFB.de: In "Make them go" you also describe the technique of the 'controlled conversation with the self'. What are the most important aspects of this?
Hermann:The phrase 'conversation with the self' confuses some people. It stands for an inner conversation with ourselves that we are usually constantly engaging in while we are awake. That doesn’t mean that other people notice. The technique mostly aims at supporting the control of one’s own thoughts. The fundamental question is: “Which thought will help me in which situation,” for example shortly before a match. For many people these thoughts should be motivational, action-controlling or focussing on their strengths. If I have been able to work out which thoughts help me, then I can use regular, focussed training and use these thoughts to channel my consciousness accordingly prior to kick-off.
DFB.de: Why is the hope for success more motivating than the fear of failure? Or does this depend on the individual?
Hermann: The crucial difference between hope for success and fear of failure doesn’t lie in their ability to motivate but rather in what the motivate you to do. You could say that fear of failure motivates you to stop, while the hope for success motivates you to give it your all. If I fear failure, then my thoughts will focus on the risks and the possible negative implications. This is why I will try to avoid mistakes and thus avoid failure. This can result in an avoidance of difficult situations altogether, which may actually paralyse me. If I’m hoping for success, I will be more likely to see the opportunity that lies in a certain situation. I will first and foremost concentrate on doing this thing. This focus that is associated with a positive outcome can help me to really fulfil my potential.
DFB.de: Jürgen Klopp once described how he spent the night after winning his first Championship with Dortmund in the pouring rain in his backyard watching over his dog that had diarrhoea. That’s a good experience, isn’t it?
Hermann: Surely not for the poor dog. (laughs) It is definitely an experience that will keep you down to earth after a big success, because you find yourself back in your mundane everyday life so soon.
DFB.de: Getting carried away or feeling empty – what dangers are there in a major success? And how can a coach prevent his team from falling prey to them?
Hermann: If you want to call it a “danger”, this rather applies to getting carried away. After a major success the coaching staff is challenged to channel the team’s focus on new tasks. Employing the basic principles of a transformational leading style can be useful here: It is not only necessary to find a new, more attractive goal, but also to communicate the purpose and meaning of the next steps. The coach needs to literally take the first step and be a role model. If this doesn’t have any impact, then other players deserve a chance.
DFB.de: You have been successfully involved in professional sport for decades, be it for the Deutscher Sport-Bund, the Bundesliga or during the past ten years for the football national team. It is often difficult to draw general conclusions, but what aspects should a regional league coach incorporate into his leading style?
Hermann: The general principals and mechanisms of professional sport are also valid for amateurs. Due to the fact that the amount of time that players can and want to dedicate to football varies, it’s perhaps even more important for the coaches to formulate clears aims that everyone can identify with. Regardless of leading style, it is especially important to remain authentic in regional football!
DFB.de: Among all your methods and measures you also mention the '10,000 hour rule'. Isn’t it comforting that you really need to master something before you can successfully use it in a competition?
Hermann: This rule of thumb has been proven in sports as well as in other contexts. It says that one has to practise something for about 10,000 hours in order to become an expert in a certain area. To be honest, I doubt that this can be scientifically supported in all areas. In any case, it evokes a feeling that one’s own success can be heavily influenced by diligence, discipline and determination rather than being a matter of chance.
